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  1. #1

    Default  Fuji Thoughts....  
      
      

    this is to avoid clogging up Mark's thread with a lot of random thoughts...

    I just snagged someone's kit on FM for $2500, it included:
    • X-pro1
    • 18-55
    • 55-200 (what I was looking for)
    • 35mm 1.4
    • 60mm 2.4
    • flash
    • grip
    • leather XP1 case

    add to that I have the XE1, a grip for it, an X100s with a grip, the 8, 18, 35, and 18-55... Basically I picked up this guys kit because I'll make money on it selling off the bits I don't like. I'll effectively get a very cheap (possibly free?) 55-200 (which is what I was after). I'll also get to try the 60, fuji's grip and the xp1 -vs- my XE1 to see which I really prefer.

    Oh, and I also finally bought a 14mm to see if it cures my wide angle desires....

    anyway, yes this is a LOT of money invested in this kit right now. I'll shoot with all of it through next weekend (photoexpo) but by then I plan on having some decisions made and I'll be cutting it down to a much more efficient kit. But in the meantime, if anyone has any questions feel free to throw them out there so I can do any comparisons you guys would like to see.

    So far:

    X-pro1: not all that much different than the XE1. The OVF is near but it's a bit odd with all the different FL options. It's terrible with the 55-200 for instance. But it's great with the 14mm (it's the whole frame). The EVF/OVF switch is more awkward than it is on the X100. The playback button has moved vs the XE1 which is a PITA. Everything else is very similar. The fuji grip feels AMAZING but it's a PITA with cards/battery access being blocked... I was thinking I might hack it up to mill out the base but it's mostly plastic. It does mount to the body very well and feels and looks awesome. I like the look and feel a lot, almost enough to keep using it. Right now I doubt I'll keep this body but I'll shoot with it a bit before I'm 100%

    55-200: Awesome! Simply put it's built very well and the IS is better than my 70-300 VC on my 5Diii. I think I prefer this lens to the tamron. Yes it costs more so that'd make sense. You basically HAVE to use a viewfinder of some sort with it though. It's stupid sharp even at MFD, 200mm and 1/10th? Wow.

    14mm: Love the size and feel of it. Love the clutch. But it's AF is a bit noisy? Like 50mm 1.8 noisy? I'll be asking fuji about it at the show, if it's normal it doesn't really bother me but it makes enough more noise vs the 35mm it sounds like something might be wrong with it? Same filter size as the 18-55 (and hood and cap) which is nice. I'll be shooting with it a lot -vs- the 18-55 and maybe 18mm to compare them. I'm curious to see if it's enough wider to be worth the money. But it's build is amazing.

    My thoughts on Fuji in general before this package arrived (and with the a7r just announced) is I was down on it as a portable landscape kit. I just really want a UWA zoom. I'll see how the 14mm goes soon enough (enough to hold me over?). But the 55-200 is SO nice it's got me optimistic... I know I'll keep at least one fuji body though. I'm pretty sure I'll be getting the 23mm as soon as it's available. From there I'm not sure what that'll mean to my fuji kit though. I'm also fairly sure that'll mean the X100s will be sold though as I don't need both (the X100s is a lot smaller though).

    Things that are for sale RIGHT NOW:
    • fuji XP1 leather case
    • fuji 60mm 2.4 (I'm waiting for the 56)
    • fuji 18-55 (I have one and don't need two)
    • fuji 35mm 1.4 (I have one and don't need two)
    • fuji EF-20 flash
    then either the Xp1 or XE1 will be sold and likely the X100s...
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  2. #2
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    I love the 55-200 so far as well, though I kinda wish it had a tripod ring. Haven't tried it on a tripod yet, but seems like it would be awful front heavy.

    My main annoyances with Fuji/the X-E1:
    • The AF button -- Fortunately, they made a workaround by pushing the down arrow button so you can select AF point
    • Anything on the hotshoe partly covers the shutter speed dial. Not a big deal, but kind of annoying
    • I keep turning the EV comp dial the wrong ways. :derp:

    I'm looking forward to shooting with the 55-200 at some racing this weekend at VIR. I'm taking the 5D3 + 70-200 also, just for fun. Will do some comparos.

    Other random thoughts:
    • I like the 18mm a lot more than I thought I would
    • the 35 f/1.4 is just as good as everyone says it is

    I'm trying to consolidate the images I've been taking and my thoughts so that I can actually write a "review" at some point in the near future. I have had next to zero time, though.
    Last edited by Markitos; 10-17-2013 at 10:54 PM.
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  3. #3

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    agreed on the tripod ring mark.
    i've been wondering if something like one of these would work: http://shop.nodalninja.com/ultimate-...ng-clamp-ring/
    (same for my tamron 70-300 for my canon)
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  4. #4
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    Oh, and instead of buying new filters, I just bought a couple of 52->77 step up rings--they work boss!
    “Sharpness is a Bourgeois concept.” -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

  5. #5

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    The XPro1 is really cool with the 14 as the OVF actually changes magnification to go that wide. In any case, the frame line size is really just optimized for the 18mm and wider. With the 35mm it seems a bit small and the 60 even more so. But that is very similar to a Leica M9.

    Mark, I'll be very interested what your impressions are of the 55-200 at VIR, especial about the AF.

  6. #6

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    update after today:

    they don't give you a live view that shows what the exposure will be in M mode. it works in A but I ****ing hate A for landscapes. I can't tell you how pissed I am right now. Also, the camera doesn't remember it was in 2 second delay mode when you turn the power on/off. Both of these things make it very tough to landscape with an XE1 (or XP1, they're both the same with these issues).

    Quote Originally Posted by Markitos View Post
    Oh, and instead of buying new filters, I just bought a couple of 52->77 step up rings--they work boss!
    yep, and I have the adapter for the 55-200 because it's the same size as my 70-300 tamron...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Mark, I'll be very interested what your impressions are of the 55-200 at VIR, especial about the AF.
    AF is spot on and it'd damn sharp. But yeah, I'm curious with moving subjects as well!
    I love this lens more than my tamron 70-300 by a LOT!
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  7. #7
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    I can tell you one thing for sure after shooting today with the X-E1 and the 5D3 side-by-side: the 5D3 may be better with moving stuff, but I put that heavy **** away after awhile because it's too ****ing heavy!

    Have been shooting mostly with the X-E1 and loving it--it is perfect for all the "behind-the-scenes" paddock action.
    “Sharpness is a Bourgeois concept.” -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

  8. #8

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    I'm really down on mine now after trying to landscape with it this AM. We'll see how the shots came out but on the way home I drove past on of my favorite waterfalls around and I grabbed the 5Diii not the fuji.
    in the fuji's defense that place NEEDS a UWA and the 14 is the widest I have right now... but still, the canon is just SO much easier to use.
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  9. #9
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Mark, I'll be very interested what your impressions are of the 55-200 at VIR, especial about the AF.
    Hoping for a more cooperative Isaac tomorrow so that I can try some panning and some more interesting angles, but here's a shot from the X-E1... it's obviously worked over a bit, but gives you an idea of how things look. Hoping to shoot lower ISOs tomorrow, too.


    VIR-1997 by markitos57, on Flickr

    P.S. That Exige was badass and screaming around the track. When we first got here there were formula cars racing. Sofa king awesome.
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  10. #10
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    My panning technique isn't perfect, but here's a shot of my friend in his Miata getting ready to pass a 2002, shot with the X-E1 and 55-200:


    VIR-0042073 by markitos57, on Flickr
    “Sharpness is a Bourgeois concept.” -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

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    That is awesome Mark!

  12. #12
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    I'd be willing to buy the X-E2 now just for the change in how Fuji does the sequences in continuous shooting. The current implementation is ****ing retarded and I have no idea if I'm getting good pans or not.
    “Sharpness is a Bourgeois concept.” -- Henri Cartier-Bresson

  13. #13

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    press down dude.
    it's actually quite nice once you get used to it...
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  14. #14

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    this I love:


    the whole lens is better. Better hood, better feel, better IQ. Better everything but AF.
    and if it's not in focus it's not worth shooting IMHO. That's my beef with that lens right now. I LOVE LOVE LOVE it -vs- the tamron. But the tamron takes better shots if the subject is moving. And even though it's a lot smaller -vs- the 70-300 on FF it's still quite large for taking around with the family.

    I've got some serious decisions to make here. I really like the build of fuji's zooms but the XE1 is terrible for taking landscapes. I need to see if possibly the XM1 is better? I'm thinking I might keep the XE1, 18-55 for day kid pics, then get a 23mm 1.4 for my normal shooting. Then I'd probably keep the 35 until the 56 comes? But another part of me is thinking to just go with just the X100s as my family cam and more to another portable landscape camera option (NEX7 with 3 zooms?)...

    argh. All I know is I want a smaller package for landscaping/hiking and I want a killer family setup. These two do NOT need to be the same setup. But I also need a DSLR for work. So if it could be based off that system it's a huge bonus. But that's the exact opposite of small and light.

    Options: 6D, SL1, XM1 (does live-view show the true exposure in M?), NEX7???
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  15. #15
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I understand what you don't like about the X-E1 for landscape stuff.
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  16. #16

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    for starters when you shoot in M there's no exposure preview.

    http://www.dpreview.com/forums/threa...-post-50171278
    I have an X-E1 and have just tested all the program modes. Here are the results:

    MODE P (program AE) - live exposure preview IS shown and reflects exposure compensation dial changes. WYSIWYG.

    MODE A (aperture priority AE) - live exposure preview IS shown and reflects exposure compensation dial changes. Settings: auto iso, auto aperture, auto exposure. WYSIWYG.

    MODE S (shutter priority AE) - live exposure preview IS NOT shown. Changes to the exposure dial are not reflected on the LCD / EVF. Changes to the exposure compensation dial do show up on the LCD / EVF in that they get brighter / darker, however the end result in the photo does not reflect the preview. The results do not change if you half-press the shutter button.

    MODE M (manual exposure) - again, live exposure preview IS NOT shown for changes to the exposure. Same results as shutter priority mode.

    I hope this helps clarify everything
    it's one of the listed fixes on the XE2 (and I'm wondering if it's on the XM1?):
    XE1->XE2 improvements:
    • Exposure compensation dial offers expanded range of +/-3
    • Shutter speed dial adds 1/180sec X-sync position, and increases separation of 'A' position
    • Separate AE-L and AF-L buttons
    • AF point selection moved to 4-way controller (reflects recent X-E1 firmware revisions)
    • Old AF point selection button is now customizable Fn2 - sets white balance by default
    • Four customizable buttons in total (Fn1, Fn2, AF, AE)
    • Repositioned 'Q' button (less likely to be pressed accidentally)
    • View mode button removed (now a menu setting)
    • Low-speed (3 fps) continuous shooting mode, with focus tracking and live view between frames
    • AF-C no longer limited to centre of frame - uses same 49 point array as AF-S
    • Configurable Auto ISO (max and min ISO, minimum shutter speed)
    • Exposure preview in Manual exposure mode (can be disabled in menu)
    • Three manual focus aids (magnified view, peaking display, digital split-image)
    • Face detection autofocus/autoexposure available (enabled as menu setting)
    • JPEG-only bracketing modes hidden when shooting RAW
    • 'Advanced Filter' creative shooting modes (JPEG-only)
    • Multiple exposure mode moved to drive menu, grouped with panorama mode
    • 14-bit Raw recording
    • 1.8x faster file write times
    • Improved EVF framerates in low light (60 fps vs 20 fps)
    • Zoomed-in focus check view available in AF mode (by clicking rear dial)
    • Conventional playback and file naming of images shot in continuous drive mode
    • Images can be deleted when viewing them zoomed-in
    • Exposure settings can be changed when AE-L is engaged

    second is manually focusing the lenses. The 14 is a TON better with it's manual markings. But the 18-55 is VERY tricky because it doesn't expand the DOF scale as it should when stopped down and it's also hard to get it where I want it because of the drive by wire issue. I'll be trying to spin it so infinity and the right edge match but WITHOUT pushing it too far right and it goes from ~1mm away to BAM, crushed to the right.... They could make a "hyperfocal focus" mode that just put infinity at the right edge for me (via a button press would be perfect) though...

    another would be LR4's image preview. It pops up SUPER sharp for a second or so (the JPEG preview that comes even if you shoot RAW) then goes to much once it's real preview loads... Then if I zoom in it looks good and good again once I zoom out. Very frustrating. The 5Diii files look mushy in the initial review but if I wait that 1 second they pop into perfect focus...

    combine those last two and it's got me wondering about image sharpness and my ability to focus for landscapes... Yeah it's only got 16mp but the lack of an AA filter should balance a lot of that out.

    then the fact it won't remember I'm using a 2 second delayed release just pisses me off as well (I use this instead of a remote even with my 5Diii).

    that's the thing though, I LOVE the fuji lenses. The 55-200 is amazing. The 18-55 is by far the best kit zoom I've ever used. I could use the 14mm until a 10-24 comes out. But there's issues with the body that drive me INSANE...
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  17. #17
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    Yeah, I hear you on those the no preview in M annoys me as well, and the 2 second delay forgetting is just stupid.
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  18. #18

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    CNs: I really like small/light cameras when I'm not getting paid. I feel like the DSLR is staying for a bit. But in it's place I want one setup that's ideal for small/light landscape use. I want a setup that's ideal for people/family shooting. The two DO NOT need to be the same setup. But at most it can be 2 cameras. So here's my thoughts:

    Landscape: NEX7 w/3 zooms, XE2 with 3 zooms (14 until the 10-24 comes), XM1 w/same (if it can do manual exposure preview), SL1 w/10-22.
    People: X100s and be done? XE1/2 w/23 and 56 (and kit zoom)?

    I love my fuji cameras, I really do, but this weekend was eye opening in how they're not setup ideally for me for landscapes. They ARE good/great for how I shoot everything else though.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markitos View Post
    and the 2 second delay forgetting is just stupid.
    I'm wondering if there's a way to save it? Are there custom modes beyond the ones for file options?

    also, the LR/focus/sharpness issues will go away with time shooting it. I've only scaped with it twice now so that's just a time thing so it's not as crucial...
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    CNs: I really like small/light cameras when I'm not getting paid. I feel like the DSLR is staying for a bit. But in it's place I want one setup that's ideal for small/light landscape use. I want a setup that's ideal for people/family shooting. The two DO NOT need to be the same setup. But at most it can be 2 cameras. So here's my thoughts:

    Landscape: NEX7 w/3 zooms, XE2 with 3 zooms (14 until the 10-24 comes), XM1 w/same (if it can do manual exposure preview), SL1 w/10-22.
    People: X100s and be done? XE1/2 w/23 and 56 (and kit zoom)?

    I love my fuji cameras, I really do, but this weekend was eye opening in how they're not setup ideally for me for landscapes. They ARE good/great for how I shoot everything else though.
    This, I want something to be able to shoot scapes with, but the x100 is handling everything else for the time being.
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  21. #21

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    yeah, exactly Eric. I've come to the realization I might have three different systems.
    but yeah, I'm after two small systems. Because the zooms on the fuji side are heavy (because they're built SO well, they're AWESOME!) and expensive I can get a NEX7 setup for around the same price I'm thinking?

    Sony/NEX:
    NEX-7 $750 body used 292g
    10-18mm $850 new 225g
    18-200mm $665 used 462g
    $2250 579g

    Fuji/XE2
    XE2 kit $1200 300g (body weight)
    18-55mm $in kit 330g
    55-200mm $700 new 580g
    10-24mm ~$1000? ~520g (weight from sigma 10-20 f/3.5)
    ~$2900 1730g

    the fuji UWA is a guess based on the sigma 10-20mm. Fuji's will add OS and be f/4 constant but might be slightly smaller? Price, who knows but even if it's $700 that kit would still be $2600 and with an XE1 it's be $2400. The XE2 is a MUCH better option for landscapes though IMHO simply because it's got the exposure preview in M mode which is pretty important. So while I'd still keep a fuji body for people/family shots, the lens prices and sizes alone are making me take a serious look at adding the NEX7 option for landscapes only. It's not a high ISO camera at all so it'd really be JUST for a portable landscape kit.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    yeah, exactly Eric. I've come to the realization I might have three different systems.
    but yeah, I'm after two small systems. Because the zooms on the fuji side are heavy (because they're built SO well, they're AWESOME!) and expensive I can get a NEX7 setup for around the same price I'm thinking?

    Sony/NEX:
    NEX-7 $750 body used 292g
    10-18mm $850 new 225g
    18-200mm $665 used 462g
    $2250 579g

    Fuji/XE2
    XE2 kit $1200 300g (body weight)
    18-55mm $in kit 330g
    55-200mm $700 new 580g
    10-24mm ~$1000? ~520g (weight from sigma 10-20 f/3.5)
    ~$2900 1730g

    the fuji UWA is a guess based on the sigma 10-20mm. Fuji's will add OS and be f/4 constant but might be slightly smaller? Price, who knows but even if it's $700 that kit would still be $2600 and with an XE1 it's be $2400. The XE2 is a MUCH better option for landscapes though IMHO simply because it's got the exposure preview in M mode which is pretty important. So while I'd still keep a fuji body for people/family shots, the lens prices and sizes alone are making me take a serious look at adding the NEX7 option for landscapes only. It's not a high ISO camera at all so it'd really be JUST for a portable landscape kit.
    the only issue I'll have is giving up the ability to grab my dslr and take on anything. Right now I have my 60D sig 10-20, 30 1.4, and canon 70-200 2.8 (almost sold) so I know I can walk out the door to shoot almost ANY type of photography right now if I had too. By going to the nex/fuji x100 I'll lose that confidence for a bit. So I don't know what I'll do but I do want to have a small kit for scapes as I want to start going further and farther into the woods but still bring good IQ with me to capture it all.

    Eric
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    my goal is to replace my 60D/10-20 with a rebel/10-22/CF pod(once I can afford that) as my go to scape/waterfall kit and the fuji x100 for my walk around/fun/project camera.
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  24. #24

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    one other option that's close to your last bit is that new SL1 with a 10-22. That's super light and still has "real" AF...
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    I always forget about that one
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  26. #26

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    this is interesting:


    left is the 5Diii with 70-300, middle is the same with the 1.4 TC added, right is the XE1 with the 55-200...
    and just FYI the 5Diii needed to be manually focused for ALL shots, the XE1 AF every time (but was impossible to MF).
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    ^ well then... damn.
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  28. #28

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    some food for thought:



    Files were shot at different times but as close as I could and still get the shots I wanted. Shots are processed pretty close to each other. They're shot as similarly as I could in the time it took. The canon file was taken a bit later so it's not as close to the others as I'd like.
    basically I took the XE1 w/18-55, NEX-7 w/18-55 and 5Diii with 16-35II down to the brooklyn bridge saturday AM. Images are not shot at exactly the same time but close. All three files are quite nice, so take that to start. Here's my observations:

    Sony/NEX-7: Best landscape body layout available. tri-navi with one dial for aperture, shutter and then ISO. Awesome. Negative is no remote but I'm a 2 second delay guy anyway (but this rules out star trails or 10-stop work with this camera for the most part). Some weird reflections/flare/ghosting in the lights. AWB is as good as the canon. There's more MP than the canon and at base ISO I'd say similar IQ/lack of noise. This is a VERY GOOD portable landscape option... I'm using the 10-18 and kit 18-55. Both have manual focusing but no scales so you have to zoom in and see whats in focus. It's AF isn't great for (dark morning) landscape, that or I need to calibrate the lenses.

    Fuji/XE1: There are some quirks here. Yes it's certainly good enough. But manually focusing (how I shoot my landscapes) is a PITA because it's drive by wire not a direct control (sony and canon are direct). Controls are OK, but once you drop below 1/2 a second you go to T then the back arrow keys control the shutter speed (I feel like the rear dial should?). It works but it's less than ideal -vs- canon and sony because their dials aren't labeled and keep spinning. AWB is off TERRIBLY in this shot if done with AWB. I used incident 3 for the above shot, it was very green/yellow otherwise. The camera doesn't remember it's in 2s delay mode when it goes to sleep. Same for the shutter speed. So if you don't keep it awake each time it turns off you need to reset both. In M the exposure preview doesn't work (this has been fixed with the XE2). Meaning you see a view similar to what your eyes would see through an OVF. You can be way too bright or way too dark with your exposure and it shows the same thing until you shoot and review. The XE2 fixes this as well. I will say when the exposure preview is working it DOES show a really cool preview of the slow shutter speed with water (where canon doesn't). I'm using the 14mm and 18-15 right now for landscaping. The 14mm is amazing because it's got a clutch for "real" manual focusing so you can easily set hyperfocal. The 18-55 is tricky to MF for landscapes. Both lenses WILL AF pretty much dead on even in low light though, not quick but quick enough for this type of work.

    In the end it's a tough choice. The NEX 7 with both lenses was $1400 (with 2 batteries and a screen protector too). The XE1 is a LOT more with the 18-55 and 14mm. Like $1k more? Who knows what the 10-24mm will cost but I'm guessing more than the 14mm. For me the fuji is a bit frustrating right now. I've got an XE2 on order as well as the 23mm. I'm not giving up on it but I do really like the NEX7 for landscaping. I basically looked at the cost of the NEX7 and figured it was around the price of the 10-24mm and I can have it now and also know how I like it. The Sony sensor is amazing. Not that the fuji is bad but for base ISO detail work the sony is there with the 5Diii and maybe better (the lenses aren't quite as good though).

    For now I've decided that my zoom/landscape kit is the NEX7. The fuji kit will stay with primes (14/23/56). I'm also keeping the 18-55 for the fuji because it's very good optically even if it's tricky to MF for landscapes (AF does work though). I just really like the fuji for shooting people but the sony feels like a better landscaping option for the money, especially because it's got MORE MP, is smaller, costs less (for a mid range zoom and wide option) and has more MP which matters for scapes. Thing is though the sony is just a tool. The fuji, there's a connection there. It's hard to explain. Fuji's lenses are also built MUCH better. There's also a big reason I'm going 14/23/56, all three have push/pull AF/MF rings. I'm hoping the 10-24 does the same but that'd be a real trick with the fact it's a zoom...

    CNs: Both the NEX7 and XE1 are good portable landscape options but the sony wins for now. Cheaper used, especially when you factor in a UWA zoom that isn't even available for fuji yet. If you can wait the XE1 with 10-24 and 18-55 will probably be an amazing option.
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    oh, this is the NEX7 (left) with 10-18 -vs- the XE1 (right) with 14mm:


    that's straight out of the camera, no PP, no corrections etc. You can see the AWB differences...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehshortbus View Post
    the only issue I'll have is giving up the ability to grab my dslr and take on anything. Right now I have my 60D sig 10-20, 30 1.4, and canon 70-200 2.8 (almost sold) so I know I can walk out the door to shoot almost ANY type of photography right now if I had too. By going to the nex/fuji x100 I'll lose that confidence for a bit.
    This exactly. DSLR are large, but they can handle all of the situations. There are definitely enough compromises with the compact systems that I can't bring myself to rely on them as a PRIMARY system. The idea of just using an X100 is great as Ben did for a while. There is really something to be said for not being able to buy other lenses aside from the WA adapter. Or as he mentioned, get the SL1 which I think was a brilliant idea by Canon to get real AF speed into as small a body as possible.

    Ben, you're kinda making me wish I hadn't sold off my 10-18 of all things still sitting around here. How are the Fuji and NEX-7 about delay after taking a long exposure? On the 5r, there is a massive delay of multiple seconds waiting for the image to process before I can review it. When taking 10-30 second images, that's a real pain making you only able to get 1 shot/minute.

  31. #31

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    if you turn off long exposure noise reduction you can replay right after shooting. If you turn it on you have to wait the same length as the exposure AFTER the exposure (so 30s shot + 30s dark frame). I always turn it off. If I have a shot I think I need it for and I've tested it w/o I'll maybe turn it on but usually no. You can also shoot your own shot with the same settings with the cap on and DIY it in photoshop and that way you can take that frame ONCE and use it against all shots (of the same setting) for the night. Another trick is to average a few static shots you've taken.

    As for keeping the DSLR I pretty much agree. I'm not planning on selling mine but I might swap the 5Diii to a 6D. I'm actually going to add a 70-200 2.8 VC to my kit as soon as I get settled onto an EVIL kit I like. I'm fairly sure for me it'll be the 14/23/56 fuji and then the NEX7 for a while. Once the 10-24 comes out and is available I might switch to all fuji, I'll see how I like the NEX over time.
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    That's the thing though... "rely" on them for what? How much paid work are most of us doing? That's what ultimately brought me to sell the DSLRs--I got frustrated with the hustle of the photography business and wanted to go back to shooting how and what I really enjoy. I think I'm already starting to see some of the fruits of that. I still have weddings that I'll be shooting, and I plan to have at least one DSLR for those. However, I think if I alter my approach a bit, and if I have the 56 f/1.2, I can actually use the XE1 as the PRIMARY body for a wedding. The proof is in the pudding, I guess... but that's getting away from my original point.

    We, as photographers, get so into gear and so into whatever new gizmo is out that will give us .0001% more acuity in the corners at f/8 that we forget where we started in the first place. I shot my first wedding with a D200 and a D70, 17-55 f/2.8 and 70-300 VR... that was it, and it was fine. I realize the bar moves higher as we move forward, but are the photos really "better"? Or just clearer, or less noisy....

    Just some food for thought. I realize this isn't the "philosophy of photography" thread.

    And yes, I realize that there ARE people who do *NEED* DSLRs--I'm not suddenly condemning them, since I realize that they are powerful and flexible tools. However, I think a lot of people get into this mindset that they *NEED* a lot more than they really do.
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  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    Negative is no remote but I'm a 2 second delay guy anyway (but this rules out star trails or 10-stop work with this camera for the most part).
    Not exactly. In bulb mode on the Nex-7 (or any nex for that matter), clicking the IR remote button once opens the shutter, a second click closes it. This allows you to to longer than 30 sec exposures. Doing star trails via stacking would be pretty hard, but doing it the old fashioned way is still doable.
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  34. #34

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    Mark, I'm making enough money each year shooting to rationalize keeping the DSLR. I don't feel comfortable shooting Arch with an EVIL because the clients KNOW photography and are looking at the camera and chimping with me the whole time. I honestly feel if I ditched the DSLR I'd lose that clientele. Yes even the ones I currently have. For weddings I don't feel comfortable shooting the action shots at weddings w/o real AI servo. Can I get some shots? Yes. I've done it at family weddings I'm not paid to shoot. Is it frustrating as hell and do I know I'm missing shots waiting for an EVIL to focus? Yep (and maybe I wouldn't be if it was an oly?). I miss shots with my kids all the time with the fujis. But I do NOT carry my DSLR around with them. So I'm looking for the right tool to do a few different jobs.

    For me I'm keeping a DSLR kit for a while. But I also want a smaller kit for my personal work. At the moment it looks like it's the sony for zooms/scapes and the fuji for primes/people. But I'm not sold 100% either way for scapes/zooms. I'm working on that over the next few weeks. They're both quite good but the real question is the 14mm -vs- the 10-18mm. Again, these are more just for me -vs- being something I need. They're a step down in IQ from the 5Diii but the portability are what make them worth it for me when no one is paying me.
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  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Utah View Post
    Not exactly. In bulb mode on the Nex-7 (or any nex for that matter), clicking the IR remote button once opens the shutter, a second click closes it. This allows you to to longer than 30 sec exposures. Doing star trails via stacking would be pretty hard, but doing it the old fashioned way is still doable.
    yeah, like I said, it doesn't do startrails (it's high ISO and I'd guess long exposures aren't great)...
    but like I said, I can't tell you the last time I took out my canon remote. It's something I do only when I'm REALLY bored. If I know I'm doing that stuff I can still take the canon.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    yeah, like I said, it doesn't do startrails (it's high ISO and I'd guess long exposures aren't great)...
    but like I said, I can't tell you the last time I took out my canon remote. It's something I do only when I'm REALLY bored. If I know I'm doing that stuff I can still take the canon.
    This is the one genre of photos I would hate not having the ability to do if I were out in the woods, on a ridge, etc. I enjoy Startrails and I'd love to do some long exposure with the 10stop once I can swing the extra $ for it.

    Meh... no point worry about it now though.
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    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    Here's the thing--it's not like I"m suddenly some rabid Fuji or mirrorless fanboy... I know you and I have gone back and forth about how a 1D body isn't *that bad* to carry around--at the time I could rationalize it because of what it did for me. Then the 5D3 came around and just destroyed that.

    I don't have blinders on--there are things that annoy me about the Fuji, and it definitely gets in my way more than something like the 5D3, or even the 5D2 (though they are closer). And like I said, I'm not trying to **** on folks that still need or use a DSLR, because I get that. If you can rationalize it, if you want it, even you need it, that's fine. OTOH, The Fuji, and the point where I am right now with MY photography, has really made me stop and really think about what I need from a camera. I guess I've realized that I *don't* need a camera that can handle any situation anymore. What I do need is one that can shoot portraits, that can maybe handle weddings (pretty much the only time I use continuous AF at a wedding is during the processional/recessiona)l, can, with work, handle some wildlife and landscape work. It needs to be able to help me tell stories, and if it can punt at some of the stuff I do the other 5% of the time, then that's probably ok. I can live with a camera that's more specialized, and isn't good at everything, especially when it makes such great files, has great lenses, and is so small.

    Like I said, for weddings I'm keeping around a DSLR for now. I have a 7D and 17-50 headed my way, and I'm going to shoot it alongside the 5D2 for awhile and see if I can live with it, or if I should keep the 5D2.

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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markitos View Post
    Here's the thing--it's not like I"m suddenly some rabid Fuji or mirrorless fanboy... I know you and I have gone back and forth about how a 1D body isn't *that bad* to carry around--at the time I could rationalize it because of what it did for me. Then the 5D3 came around and just destroyed that.

    I don't have blinders on--there are things that annoy me about the Fuji, and it definitely gets in my way more than something like the 5D3, or even the 5D2 (though they are closer). And like I said, I'm not trying to **** on folks that still need or use a DSLR, because I get that. If you can rationalize it, if you want it, even you need it, that's fine. OTOH, The Fuji, and the point where I am right now with MY photography, has really made me stop and really think about what I need from a camera. I guess I've realized that I *don't* need a camera that can handle any situation anymore. What I do need is one that can shoot portraits, that can maybe handle weddings (pretty much the only time I use continuous AF at a wedding is during the processional/recessiona)l, can, with work, handle some wildlife and landscape work. It needs to be able to help me tell stories, and if it can punt at some of the stuff I do the other 5% of the time, then that's probably ok. I can live with a camera that's more specialized, and isn't good at everything, especially when it makes such great files, has great lenses, and is so small.

    Like I said, for weddings I'm keeping around a DSLR for now. I have a 7D and 17-50 headed my way, and I'm going to shoot it alongside the 5D2 for awhile and see if I can live with it, or if I should keep the 5D2.

    I'm not trying to evangelize, just to add my experience and perspective.
    This is how I'm starting to think as well mark. I have a Full time job in a field I know I love, enjoy and can do well in so photography has gone back on the shelf as a "Hobby that Pays for Itself." This was why I jumped to the x100 for 90% of my photography now, yet I can't let the DSLR go yet because that "What if someone needs a photographer and I don't have the gear I need?" However, I'm learning that I can do more than I think I can with what I have. Hell how long was the 35mm FL the only thing professionals shot with for the most part?

    On the other hand I always think these are my images on my walls, my FB, or my Flickr account why do I care if there is a pixel peeper that is like "well if you used a DSLR you wouldn't have that, or this..." **** you sir or ma'am, would you walk up to a sculptor and say "well you should have used a different carving knife to get a better edge, or different clay for a better product? This is my art, my creation, my love for photography that matters not your opinion; UNLESS I have asked for it, and even then its still YOUR opinion. My opinions, my creativity will be the end all, be all in my life.

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  39. #39

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    Mark, get the sigma 18-35 for the 7d. . And I don't disagree with the rest of what you're saying. I'll elaborate tonight. I have a blog post in the works on all this as well.
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    I'm definitely considering the 18-35... Whatever I get will likely be my only lens with it.
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  41. #41

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    it's not small but it's your DSLR rig so that makes sense. The thing for me is the 7D isn't the best high ISO body around. I never loved 3200 from it. So having a fast prime always felt necessary for low light, that lens gives you that ability with a zoom's flexibility. Seems like an amazing combo.

    as for gear... I'm not trying to defend or tear down any systems here or even types of systems. I've been on a quest to find the ideal small camera for family work for a long time now. It started with a GF1. It then went to a NEX5. From there it's been a myriad of options including at least three other MFT options (OMD, EPL something and GX1). I've also owned the X100 and X100s. They've all done some things right and some things wrong but for better or worse their size has meant I could take it with me more often and get shots I wouldn't get if I'd left my DSLR at home. Along the way I've always known my DSLR was a better tool for me. That's not to say some people aren't giving them up entirely and producing some amazing work, but for me that's not how I work. But I've always worked towards a smaller kit for my personal shooting. Some day I hope it can take over my primary shooting as well. It's not there yet, at least not for me. But it's getting closer and closer every day.

    Now, as for what I'm looking at with the systems I'm trying right now. There's 2 aspects of these cameras I look at. Form and function. Form IS important because I take this camera with me everywhere. It's like a watch basically. If it looks like crap I won't take it everywhere and then what's the point? Of course that's far LESS important -vs- function but it IS a factor (being completely honest). For me the fuji's have the best form but there's a * in there in that I really prefer an all black camera. I love the special edition X100 but not the silver on black. That's part of the draw to the XE for me. But then the XE is also much better to use in my hands thanks to the slightly larger buttons. Honestly for me the XM1/XA1 are easier -vs- the X100 because their layout uses the 4-way -vs- the dial around the tiny OK button. From there using the X-mount means I can use more than one lens which is awesome (option$!) but also disaster! I will say it allows the system to become a feasible portable landscape option even with just the 14mm and kit zoom. But again, functionality is key. The AF isn't ideal. There's the 2 second forgetfulness, lack of exposure preview and the difficulty focusing the lenses w/o the clutch when doing landscape work. Things I can work around but it's annoying to have to. But the fuji is just comfortable in my hand. It's nice to look at. It does a good enough job for what I want I don't want to smash it anymore (prior to some firmware updates this was less the case).

    Now the sony? It's not a beautiful looking camera. It's interesting though (especially with the 10-18mm on it). It's also not perfect function wise. It's AF isn't as good for scapes. There's no good remote option. This would work though: http://tanda.bymac.org/ it's lens selection is good/great for landscaping at least. It's got a great sensor in a small package. I'm just not sure if it does enough more -vs- the fuji with zooms to be necessary?
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    My plan is to migrate to the 14/23/56. I'm also going to keep the 18-55 as it's awesome for family shooting outside. 2.8-4 wins in sunlight with a base 200. I'm not sold on the fuji -vs- NEX battle quite yet. I actually like the sony more than I thought but with an XE2 on order (should get it next week according to my friend who works for fuji) I'm holding off on any rash decisions there until I get the new version. I LOVED the 23mm at expo. I love the 14mm with the clutch. I REALLY like fuji's lenses and the way they're built. Rock solid. It's hard to sell the 55-200 (sooo good and so versatile) and 18mm (tiny if/when I need it?) but the 14mm is just too good to pass up and the 23mm is a better FL for me for a fast lens (it's replacing the 35 for me). I think I'll sell the rok too though because it's one too many lenses with the 14mm as well.
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  43. #43
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    To me it makes sense that you would get rid of the 18... the 55-200 less so. I've only used that lens a little bit, but I LOVE IT. I wish it were maybe a constant aperture f/4 or something, but the IS is great, the lens is rock solid, and it's sharp as all get out. All that being said, though, I was thinking about what I'd travel with, and it would likely be 18/35/56 and I'd leave the zoom at home or take it instead of the 56 (though I love fast aperture short teles!) I may end up going the same route as you, but I don't see myself moving to the 14, and I like the 35 enough--and the spacing from the 18 is "better"--that I may just keep it the way it is. Originally I was going to sell the 60/2.4, esp. since with the 56 I'll have 3 short teles with the zoom, but I actually like the 60 a lot and being able to shoot macro-ish with one lens is something I like. Bundled it was also so stupid cheap(er) that it doesn't cost me much to keep. If you get the 18-55 with a kit, it's a no-brainer.

    And thanks for the flash, btw! Seems to work great, and it's so little!
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  44. #44

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    I really like the 55-200 as a lens, it's just that it's SO big for my travel/small kit. If I consolidate to JUST a fuji system as my small system I'll keep it (or get another). But if I keep the sony it'll go. It's just big and I won't hike with it so it's just not going to get used all that much. it's an amazing lens though, so good. But teles have never been something I've used a lot, only when I've had to.
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  45. #45
    cold-blooded internet insult machine Markitos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    I really like the 55-200 as a lens, it's just that it's SO big for my travel/small kit. If I consolidate to JUST a fuji system as my small system I'll keep it (or get another). But if I keep the sony it'll go. It's just big and I won't hike with it so it's just not going to get used all that much. it's an amazing lens though, so good. But teles have never been something I've used a lot, only when I've had to.
    Yeah, I hear that, and agree. I kinda feel the same way, but it's just so good.
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  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markitos View Post
    but it's just so good.
    +1!!!

    I literally have to choose between it and a 70-200 2.8 for the canon! I'm thinking I might try to finally sell my 70-300 for canon (since this is smaller than that at least and better) so I can keep it?
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    +1!!!

    I literally have to choose between it and a 70-200 2.8 for the canon! I'm thinking I might try to finally sell my 70-300 for canon (since this is smaller than that at least and better) so I can keep it?
    I'll make you a great deal on the non IS version of the 70-200, ie a trade if interested. (thinking the xe-1 and cash?)
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  48. #48

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    now that's tempting... I'll have to run my budget through when XE1 selling time comes. I REALLY want the tamron 70-200 VC, but a trade is always a good thing for me.
    or I'll trade my XE1 and 70-300 for your 70-200?
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobsen1 View Post
    now that's tempting... I'll have to run my budget through when XE1 selling time comes. I REALLY want the tamron 70-200 VC, but a trade is always a good thing for me.
    or I'll trade my XE1 and 70-300 for your 70-200?
    I don't have a need for the 70-300, but I could be interested in the xe-1 and the 18mm (but thats too similar to the x100) or the 8mm rok as a trade. Hmm... Not sure i'll like/need the 8mm
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  50. #50

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    right, but you'll need a lens so start with something and go from there. The 18mm is what I'd suggest (it's what I started with).
    we'll work something out when the time comes.

    here's my most recent mod:


    it could use some tweaks but I was having issues with my drill press depth limiter moving on me and the tiny ridge it left actually makes the pin tough to move which might be perfect. Elias helped me too so it's "good enough" for now. I actually found the second bracket from my X100s (after I sold it) so I can have a second go at it if I need to. Oh, and I have the thumb grip on the XE1 now too, combined with the grip it's pretty awesome.
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