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TurbojonLS
11-27-2007, 09:46 PM
Here's the untouched shot (just resized):
http://i8.tinypic.com/8g4jzup.jpg

I was playing around, and couldn't decide which was best - darkened vs. increased contrast - so I did both.

Darkened:
http://i3.tinypic.com/6woex4o.jpg

More Contrast:
http://i1.tinypic.com/6q1btpt.jpg

Which looks better? Do either look unnatural? Any recommendations?

And in general, what do you all look at/for when PPing? How do you know what is too much?

subimatt
11-27-2007, 09:52 PM
The last one looks best IMO, I only wish the mountains were in focus as well.

tardypizza
11-27-2007, 09:57 PM
At f/7.1 I would expect those distant mountains to be much sharper. Was there a lot of low level turbulence, like a mirage effect?

I agree, the last is the best.

subimatt
11-27-2007, 10:01 PM
looking again, looks like the was something on the lens or sensor, about half way between the moon and the top left corner, easy fix... but just in case you missed it.

tardypizza
11-27-2007, 10:02 PM
Yep, couple big dust motes in there.

Stime187
11-27-2007, 10:07 PM
Dust moles aside, #3 works the best. But, I have to be honest, I don't really know what I'm looking at besides the moon... :confused: are those mountains? clouds?

- Scott

jjswee
11-27-2007, 10:14 PM
Since this is kinda close to the subject. How do you guys feel about people editing a picture to have the moon closer to a mountain, so the picture can be cropped more and have less blank space?

Stime187
11-27-2007, 10:19 PM
Since this is kinda close to the subject. How do you guys feel about people editing a picture to have the moon closer to a mountain, so the picture can be cropped more and have less blank space?


Personally, I wouldn't do it... but thats just how I am about my images. But, I can see why someone would do it and I don't have much of a problem with it. I do have an issue when people add moons that weren't actually there, but once again, thats just my opinion.

- Scott

tardypizza
11-27-2007, 10:26 PM
Since this is kinda close to the subject. How do you guys feel about people editing a picture to have the moon closer to a mountain, so the picture can be cropped more and have less blank space?


If you're just talking about cropping the entire photo to "zoom" in, then opinions vary. But if you're talking about increasing the size of the moon selectively, then at that point it ceases to be a true photograph and the image becomes a digital manipulation, a composite.

If you want the moon to appear large in comparison to your foreground the best way is to get far away from the mountain and use a long telephoto lens to bring in the moon compared to the foreground.

TurbojonLS
11-28-2007, 05:37 AM
I guess it would help to explain. Those are clouds, both layers. And work on the splooge, got it.

thechickencow
11-28-2007, 08:43 AM
If you stare at it a while then move your eyes, the moon moves. Good enough?

I wish something in the shot was sharper than it is.

subimatt
11-28-2007, 08:53 AM
oh wierd, I didnt realize they were clouds..

tardypizza
11-28-2007, 10:48 AM
Clouds makes much more sense. The more I stared the more I found it strange that the mountains had wisps.

Stime187
11-28-2007, 11:34 AM
Clouds are difficult to make work in some cases. I have a sunrise shot of some spectacular clouds I shot a year or so ago, very special moment and interesting, but since I chose a half second of so shutter the clouds barely moved during it and made them a bit soft. Thus, the whole shot doesn't really work for me, I may post it at some point for reference. Its too bad as I've only seen that particular natural phenomenon (the one in my shot) one time and I missed it.

- Scott

Damon
11-28-2007, 03:07 PM
Honestly, and I don't mean to be harsh, but that pic shouldn't make it past your initial edits. The first thing that comes to my mind is composition...

jjswee
11-28-2007, 03:14 PM
Since this is kinda close to the subject. How do you guys feel about people editing a picture to have the moon closer to a mountain, so the picture can be cropped more and have less blank space?


If you're just talking about cropping the entire photo to "zoom" in, then opinions vary. But if you're talking about increasing the size of the moon selectively, then at that point it ceases to be a true photograph and the image becomes a digital manipulation, a composite.

If you want the moon to appear large in comparison to your foreground the best way is to get far away from the mountain and use a long telephoto lens to bring in the moon compared to the foreground.


I mean lassoing the moon and moving it down in the image, closer to the mountains, lets say. Not editing the size.

The cropping you talk about. It seems to me that people don't like cropping a picture at all. Is this correct? If so, why?

Stime187
11-28-2007, 03:19 PM
Honestly, and I don't mean to be harsh, but that pic shouldn't make it past your initial edits. The first thing that comes to my mind is composition...


Damon,

While you have a point, I think that is a little harsh considering everyone has different standards for what a successful image is. Personally, that shot wouldn't make it past my initial edits either, but I'm trying to compete on a professional landscape photographer level... not a hobbyist so of course, my images need to be a certain amount better to be included in my portfolio/finished work.

I'll let Jon add his feeling, but from what I've seen, thats not his intention, he's on a more amateur-looking-to-improve level hence why he posted it and asked our opinions.

- Scott

subimatt
11-28-2007, 04:09 PM
The photo is totally workable nonetheless, Id personally do a crop to eliminate the unfocused clouds and have the moon and clear sky. Theres nothing wrong with cropping, I do it all the time, some people dont like to but I find you can get a great image out of a not so great one simply by cropping. Granted youll lose some blow up capability but I wouldnt say its a completely throw away photo. I find you can learn alot from your photos even if they may not make the initial grade. I go through my old stuff all the time and see things differently.

tardypizza
11-28-2007, 04:44 PM
The cropping you talk about. It seems to me that people don't like cropping a picture at all. Is this correct? If so, why?


As subimatt was saying, it's all personal preference. I'll crop motorsports shots to make up for a lack of reach (how do people afford those $6000 lenses anyway), or I'll crop to make an unusable shot usable (like at a wedding where you're just firing away trying to record everything and don't have the time to compose everything perfectly).

Those that don't crop are purists, they like to get everything perfect in camera. I'd like to be there someday but for now I'm totally comfortable cropping when I have to.

Try this though, don't allow yourself to crop any images for a time. Force yourself to concentrate on your composition and take the time to analyze everything in the viewfinder. It won't be long before you notice a marked improvement in your shots.

thechickencow
11-29-2007, 02:34 AM
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I like the brighter version better.

Damon
11-30-2007, 12:36 AM
Damon,

While you have a point, I think that is a little harsh considering everyone has different standards for what a successful image is. Personally, that shot wouldn't make it past my initial edits either, but I'm trying to compete on a professional landscape photographer level... not a hobbyist so of course, my images need to be a certain amount better to be included in my portfolio/finished work.

I'll let Jon add his feeling, but from what I've seen, thats not his intention, he's on a more amateur-looking-to-improve level hence why he posted it and asked our opinions.

- Scott


I just feel like he might be getting ahead of himself. However, since I'm not familiar with everyone's level it is probably not my place to say. Plus maybe it's purely a photoshop question and not a how to make my pic better question, and if that's the case I'm way off base.

TurbojonLS
11-30-2007, 09:45 AM
I hadn't checked this thread recently, and it looks like I should have.

First, my goals - To get better. I like photogography, I like art, I like painting - I'm not an expert at any of them however, and have zero formal training. I'm just practicing, taking pictures, and getting experience. I work a boring 9 - 5 (really more like 830 - 615) desk job that doesn't allow me any creativity, and I'm trying to balance this with more creative things outside of the office. I've had this camera all of 2 months now, and I'm still just trying to figure out everything to the point where I feel comfortable with most of the features.

I'll take any criticisms at any time - its the only way I'll get better. My questions on this shot were specifically PP related, which is why I posted it here, but that doesn't mean that's all I want help with.

All that said - Damon: what would you have done differently? You mentioned composition, but what about the composition don't you like?

Damon
11-30-2007, 02:22 PM
Well, I think you are blending two different types of pictures together. On the top you have a moon shot, at the bottom you have a sunrise/sunset shot. And it's extremely difficult to get a good picture of the moon.

You could pull it off if there was some sort of horizon, zoom out a little and give us some landscape, or pan down and cut out the moon altogether.

distorto
11-30-2007, 02:36 PM
i like the moon in #2 and the clouds in #1.

tardypizza
11-30-2007, 02:40 PM
Curious as to what altitude you were at to get this shot. Mountain top? Airplane?

TurbojonLS
11-30-2007, 04:25 PM
Curious as to what altitude you were at to get this shot. Mountain top? Airplane?


I'm not Stime :lol:

2nd floor of a cottage overlooking a river in WV. Based on some google searches it looks like about 550 feet above sea level, give or take.

tardypizza
11-30-2007, 04:30 PM
Ah, I get the perspective now. I thought you were shooting eye level with the clouds, but now I can tell that the dark part of the clouds is the base and not some dark clouds in between. Congratulations on posting an image that took me days to figure out.

TurbojonLS
11-30-2007, 04:32 PM
Congratulations on posting an image that took me days to figure out.


Umm, thanks? or "I'm sorry," whichever one is more appropriate.

tardypizza
11-30-2007, 04:58 PM
I didn't mean it in a bad way.

Stime187
11-30-2007, 05:08 PM
Congratulations on posting an image that took me days to figure out.


Umm, thanks? or "I'm sorry," whichever one is more appropriate.


Yeah, a good rule on here is to assume the person who said whatever they said, meant it in a good way as Ted did. I don't think I've seen anything negative/pissy yet.



I just feel like he might be getting ahead of himself. However, since I'm not familiar with everyone's level it is probably not my place to say. Plus maybe it's purely a photoshop question and not a how to make my pic better question, and if that's the case I'm way off base.


That's what I took it as and thats why I didn't try to come off too pissed off towards you. I just knew the situation a bit better but you're critique is certainly welcome (as Jon) said and helpful.

TurbojonLS
12-01-2007, 07:24 PM
Thanks for all the comments.