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jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 10:20 AM
This has come up from time to time, but I thought I'd make a thread where we can openly discuss the options here?

Right now we have a sharing sections. It's meant for just that, just sharing (ie "nice shot" "great set" and other back slappers). We have a critique section that's meant for critique. It's not that hard to tell the two apart or know what to do with them, but people seem to always have issues with this...

IE, posting in sharing saying it's too many for critique. There are no rules on how many CAN go into a crit thread, it's just harder to critique a whole set. Or people who put something in sharing saying "critiques welcome but that's not the PURPOSE of this thread". IE they don't want JUST critiques (because sometimes threads in that section only get critiques and people who don't feel comfortable doing that will just VIEW it).

For whatever reasons (this is NOT a finger pointing exercise) this happens. It's been suggested we make a third section (:diaf:) for luke warm half assed critiques... We're NOT adding another section, I'll start with that.

It's also been suggested we JUST have one section? But what about having just ONE section. We ARE a "school" after all. If we did this, how should it be handled? We could say assume it's sharing unless the poster says critique? We could also go with mild critiques are OK ("crop X out of this and it'll be amazing!") but nothing serious unless it's specifically asked? This way everyone would feel comfortable posting, everyone would feel comfortable commenting, and those who like to critique could help when asked?

Thoughts?

tardypizza
10-22-2010, 10:40 AM
merge the sections, put an option field under usernames for "Critique: yes or no", then encourage thread posters to put "Critiques welcome" in the post with the photos if they want to have their egos shredded.

Stime187
10-22-2010, 10:48 AM
I'd say have a normal section and a serious critique sections.

Normal = All threads can receive minor critique regardless of it being requested. But, if the OP would like a bit more "Critiques welcome" will get them more of a critique oriented thread. And, like-wise if the poster was just bull****ting and thought the photo was funny, they can simply say "just wanted to share this, no critique necessary, I realize it's not technically very sound!" or something like that.

Serious Critique = Your photo(s) get ripped to shreds. Every little nitpick/anything anyone can think of is stated. The chance to learn a lot/hear a lot of opinions but much more than a typical critique/sharing. I could see this really helpful for making portfolios, competition entries, learning, etc.

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 10:54 AM
I like ted's idea, but I'm not sure how to label it. the deal in the postbit or maybe something you check off when you post the thread, or possibly both?

Scott, your idea would turn into ONE section anyway, or at least it's not much different at all from how they are now? If I read that one way, critique becomes even more serious than it is now and people won't use it. If I read it another way, that's exactly what we have?

my vote is for ONE section though, then letting the posters determine how it's treated. I think we'll get more views and comments and even mild critiques that way. But I want to hear more opinions before we change anything...

Stime187
10-22-2010, 11:01 AM
Yeah, one section is basically what I'm suggesting. Just leaving a rip-it-to-shreds category for people that really want crazy critique. But, that can be accomplished in the one section idea as well.

So, yeah, one section is great by me.

tardypizza
10-22-2010, 11:14 AM
I like ted's idea, but I'm not sure how to label it.


I'm going out on a limb here....



"Sharing and Critique"

jjswee
10-22-2010, 11:19 AM
:lol:

Algonquin
10-22-2010, 11:46 AM
Personally, I like sharing my photos with you guys, but I also want to learn on how to improve on them. I'm sure that in everything I've posted so far there would be tons of ammunition for them to be ripped apart. I'm one of those wishy-washy folks who post things in sharing who also are okay with them being critiqued.

When I see someone like Stime post his images in the Sharing section, I think that he knows what he's doing, he already has that image for sale on his site etc. and he's just sharing another of his awesome masterpieces with us - and we can tell him what we like about the image, how the colours reflect in the water etc. which is valuable, because it gives him feedback which his customers may not give him, but in the long run, it may help him sell more photos.

I like the idea of one forum Ben. How about this idea. We have a salsa style of critique: mild, medium and spicy. Can you get hot chili pepper thread icons (like the waving kitty) and have 1, 2, or 3 peppers for the amount of critique you want? or is that too complicated?

I know that right now I'm not ready for spicy level of critique, more medium - because I know there's a lot I need to work on still. Baby steps right? But then someone like DanM, with his super sexy portraits for example, has posted some threads in critique to ask about lighting, how the model's holding her hands etc. whereas I'm still working on getting the right exposure. Anyways, that's the difference in how I see these things.

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 11:51 AM
I'm going out on a limb here....



"Sharing and Critique"

:lol:

I meant with the question in your options for the postbit and or the label on each thread in a drop down -vs- just saying something in each thread...

dmitchell
10-22-2010, 12:02 PM
I'm sure that in everything I've posted so far there would be tons of ammunition for them to be ripped apart.



I keep seeing this from people who are new to the forum (just noticed that you aren't new). This just doesn't happen on NSOP, that's why we all get along. I've put some real **** in the Critique section and came out learning from it and with both cheeks still attached.

I use both sharing and critique:
Sharing because I got something that may be **** (or not) but I want to share with my friends.

Critique usually because I have something I like and want to see what you guys think or something I don't like and want to know how to make it better.

That said, I could see having just Critique and OT or this is a photo site everything could be fair game.

Levels of critique doesn't work for me. You either want it critiqued or not.

jm2e
10-22-2010, 12:03 PM
What's really wrong with the current system? I rarely go into sharing because I find critique more interesting. When I post pics and can't stomach the feedback I know they deserve (and secretly hope for an easy pat on the back) I go to sharing.
You can see the world as full of rules or full of guidelines. Maybe you (and others) are getting bent out of shape because you see "rule" as being broken. But rarely is anyone hurt by the current system. Perhaps this is because it has somewhat flexible guidelines that adequately separate the categories.
I would argue that it's the "old school" found on most other web forums. In these places moderation is taken to the extreme and contributers are routinely banned, censored, moved and scolded for stepping outside the "Rules". This may not be TGR, but please don't let it become Nikon Cafe.

jm2e
10-22-2010, 12:09 PM
Is the real debate whether to have two levels of debate?
The first, where people balance their critique with encouragement, carefully placed feedback and gentle ass patting.
The second, where all's game including butthurted personal attacks and suggestions consistent with comments toward baseball empires.
That's what you guys really want. People who ask for critique in sharing are looking for the first. Others are looking for permission to turn "Critique" into the second.

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 12:30 PM
^ see, I'm the super laid back admin guy. I really don't care, what DOES bother me is when people get confused or I feel like they're sharing LESS because of the options. 1 forum makes it easier in my head. The system we have now was supposed to be VERY easy (people originally wanted different sections for different subjects, I disagree as everyone should make sure they're well rounded at least in what they see). Nudes is the obvious exception.

I just think one section would make it easier for new people and easier in general.


I like the idea of one forum Ben. How about this idea. We have a salsa style of critique: mild, medium and spicy. Can you get hot chili pepper thread icons (like the waving kitty) and have 1, 2, or 3 peppers for the amount of critique you want? or is that too complicated?

I actually like that idea A LOT. If it can be edited (the icon) that's the ticket IMHO, I'm just not sure you can change that icon later? That "needs" to be possible just so people can add it later (since we'll all forget), but if that works, then YES!


Levels of critique doesn't work for me. You either want it critiqued or not.

well, yeah, I agree on the levels too, but the 2 main levels would be critique or no. I agree if it's getting critique it should be all out, but I can see how some people don't want the FOCUS to be critique. it's not that they're against it, it's that they don't want that to be the ONLY replies to the post?


I would argue that it's the "old school" found on most other web forums. In these places moderation is taken to the extreme and contributers are routinely banned, censored, moved and scolded for stepping outside the "Rules". This may not be TGR, but please don't let it become Nikon Cafe.

good points and that's NOT the point at all. I like to think I/we walk the line pretty well with moderation. People are laid back here and speak their mind w/o getting banned and being *******s IMHO. I love that. The point of this is to just get rid of some of the confusion we have where some people cross post (for good reasons really). I want to make it EASIER, not more rules or anything like that.

This is a photo school, so IMHO we should treat it like that. Straight up sharing threads are almost pointless no? I mean I do them too, but if someone wants to say I should crop something or WB or whatever, I'm not AGAINST that if you know what I mean.

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 12:32 PM
I actually like that idea A LOT. If it can be edited (the icon) that's the ticket IMHO, I'm just not sure you can change that icon later? That "needs" to be possible just so people can add it later (since we'll all forget), but if that works, then YES!


OK, I just edited the icon on this thread and it worked. I need a non mod to try it to a thread they started please. If that works, that's the answer IMHO. Just go find an old post you started and edit the original post (advanced edit). You should have the buttons at the bottom for which post icon you want. See if you can change it for me please. Bump the thread and link it here for me once you've tried please. Thanks! :)

Algonquin
10-22-2010, 12:58 PM
OK, I just edited the icon on this thread and it worked. I need a non mod to try it to a thread they started please. If that works, that's the answer IMHO. Just go find an old post you started and edit the original post (advanced edit). You should have the buttons at the bottom for which post icon you want. See if you can change it for me please. Bump the thread and link it here for me once you've tried please. Thanks! :)

It worked for me! Changed from no icon, to waving kitteh icon.

http://newschoolofphotography.com/sharing/27298-self-portrait.html#post527103

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 01:03 PM
awesome, thanks. Now to make some icons... :lol:

we need 3 maybe?

NO critique at all (aka I'm a whimp)
some critique, just don't make it the ONLY thing
full on tear me a new one crituque

http://www.amazingribs.com/images/hamburgers/wimpy_lg.jpg

I tried GISing "tear me a new one" but that wasn't pretty... :lol:

we could go with 2 levels. Critique or not. Crit could be the DEFAULT, ie if you forget it's assumed. Then the whimp could be NON critique but you'd have to use it? :lol:

drvrswntd
10-22-2010, 01:17 PM
I think you should stick with two levels of "crituque", mild or spicy. The more levels you add, the more ambigous each one is. What is medium to you? Keep it fairly self explanatory and you are golden.

jm2e
10-22-2010, 01:20 PM
I like that in the sharing forum people can drop thousands of pics of their kids(nobody wants critique on their kid pics). I meanwhile, don't want to sift through those thousands of kid threads to get to the skateboarding. I'm glad it's all there, I just won't make it to page three if that's the way it ends up.

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 02:48 PM
I think you should stick with two levels of "crituque", mild or spicy. The more levels you add, the more ambigous each one is. What is medium to you? Keep it fairly self explanatory and you are golden.

right, I agree on not too many levels, but I also think that's why 2 levels works? Critique, yes or no?
or we do default (no icon) where you can critique it, but don't go insanely into minor details, then have the whimp (burger) level with NO critique, then have the pepper to really tear into it? :lol:


I like that in the sharing forum people can drop thousands of pics of their kids(nobody wants critique on their kid pics). I meanwhile, don't want to sift through those thousands of kid threads to get to the skateboarding. I'm glad it's all there, I just won't make it to page three if that's the way it ends up.

we don't have enough posts in either second to be bumped to the second page within a few days anyway though?

Algonquin
10-22-2010, 03:25 PM
I keep seeing this from people who are new to the forum (just noticed that you aren't new). This just doesn't happen on NSOP, that's why we all get along. I've put some real **** in the Critique section and came out learning from it and with both cheeks still attached.


No, I know that we don't have a bunch of a-holes here who needlessly rip into people's work. But I was just saying that I'm still trying to nail exposure, and would benefit critique about bigger idea stuff rather than a bunch of minor details like how people's hands are folded in their laps or something like that. We do have a good crowd here, and its comfortable for beginners.

danm
10-22-2010, 04:33 PM
leave it as is. remind the sharing critiquers to not critique in sharing. if someone asks for CC in the OP, move the thread to critique

thechickencow
10-22-2010, 05:14 PM
I think all critique, all the time.

wrxfactor
10-22-2010, 05:19 PM
leave it as is. remind the sharing critiquers to not critique in sharing. if someone asks for CC in the OP, move the thread to critique

I barely go into sharing because it's all bull**** and flowers and smoke up the ass. A little critiquing never hurts anyone's feelings as long as it is productive and not excessive. People join a photography forum to get better, no? I could post something really cool but you can all crush me on product shots, thus I have to put that in critique even if I just want to hear a few words of critique because sharing is so weak.

Here is how I see it:

In sharing, the focus is what's in the picture. In critique, the focus is the picture itself.

We should be able to lightly critique the technical aspects of sharing and be no-holds-barred in critique.

Agree/disagree?

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 06:52 PM
^ agree pretty much, but because we're a school, why not lump everything into ONE section and make the smoke and flowers only apply if you have nothing else to say or if they mark the thread with a special icon? Basically, I think because of the school aspect of the forum, we should have more in critique, if not EVERYTHING....

danm
10-22-2010, 07:00 PM
making it all critique will just turn out to make photo sharing be as sparse as critique is. people put stuff in sharing cause they dont want to find out what they did wrong. they are probably happy with their results and want to 'show off' a little. maybe they want to see if what they did gets any response but dont have the confidence to get crit on it. i think people especially beginners need this option, its what makes this forum approachable. other forums let people rip on photos no matter the area or subject, and it makes people get their feelings hurt when they werent looking for it.

Keep NSoP different! :D

wrxfactor
10-22-2010, 07:26 PM
Ben, if you lump it into one section, you'll most likely have to start moderating considerably more. Why blur the lines by making it one section?

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 07:55 PM
I'm willing to work if it makes more sense for everyone else, but this is exactly what I'm looking for, more input from a bunch of members to see how everyone wants it done. Thanks guys.

jm2e
10-22-2010, 08:25 PM
I'm willing to work if it makes more sense
What exactly isn't working right now?
Is it that people wish they could critique the Sharing section?? Why then does Sharing seem more popular than Critique?

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 08:34 PM
I see people (mods and others) using the sections wrong the way I see it (the way I meant them to be).
I see people I'd love to comment to but NEVER post in sharing (simple helping points I'd like to make).
and that third one is a great point.

astockwell
10-22-2010, 08:34 PM
BTW, they had a big huge uproar at Dgrin about a year ago. They closed their critique section, and all the established photogs over there really bitched a fit. I was one of them. People would post stuff in a landscape section, or some other section, and not get what they wanted for comments, then post in the critque section, and get torn up, and get butt hurt. So they closed critique, and we complained that it kills the development of a photorapher if you do that. So we told Dgrin they needed a critque forum. It is vital to the forum using photographer for their development if they use it and have realistic expectations going into it, and can be humble. So they stood up a new forum called the "Refinery". It is for serious hardcore critique. So get ready for it...and there haven't been any problems since. Once people understand that if they post in there, they better be ready. I know you'd think the critique forum we have now would suffice, but...IDK.

I for one got a lot of benefit when I first got here by posting in critique. I don't use it very much now, as I understand my style now, and I can really critique my own work well. I know what works and what doesn't, and the technical merits of my work also. The critique section taught me how to critique work from others, and resultantly taught me more. So I don't really have a preference on how you go about it Ben, but I do think a section, or a checkbox for hard core critique should be there. Have you ever thought about trying to get a "pro" to come in as a "artist in residence" to critique work for us?? Not sure who would, but I'm sure maybe there'd be someone out there who might?? I'll give you the example thread from DGrin, and the Refinery forum at Dgrin...


Muench University (Artist in Residence for Landscapes)
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=88305

The University discussion thread
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=88306
(that way people are using the post thread to discuss it)

Also "The Refinery"
http://www.dgrin.com/forumdisplay.php?f=30

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 09:13 PM
yeah, no way are we ditching critique, I'm more pushing to a point where EVERYTHING can be critiqued by default, then to have a flag for "take it easy" and another for "I brought my lube"... I just think that more people should use critique, and making it the default might make people more willing to play?

I also feel if someone needs some serious critique, we have users here who know enough about most subjects to give it. Sure, some really advanced shooters might not get much critique, but we're a school here, not graduate school. ;)

Markitos
10-22-2010, 09:18 PM
I have put a lot of my sets in Sharing lately because I feel like I can't get anyone to bother saying ANYTHING in critique sometimes. I posted a wedding thread in critique, got very little response. From the response I DID get, I posted alternate photos that I felt addressed the critique. Got bupkiss for a response and now it's sunk to the bottom.

I agree that the system is broken, and there are some good ideas here. I think we need to clarify the Critique section, or lump them together. I put things in Critique specifically to get responses, positive or negative, constructive or at this point even unconstructive would be preferable to the silent treatment that threads in critique often get. And I'm not butthurt about my thread--just mentioning my own recent experience, and from having observed how little traffic the critique section gets in comparison to sharing.

Other times, like for my vacation, I put them in sharing because I don't expect anyone to waste their time picking apart photos that I took for fun and don't really want/need to improve. I like them for what they are, and while people are always welcome to critique them, I'm not going to change anything because of it. I'm not necessarily looking for back slaps or ego-feeding, but photography for me is a very social thing, and I love being involved in this forum as much as possible because I like to be able to share experiences with other photographers.

I think there's a very real need for that sort of distinction, we just need to figure out if that would work in one section or multiples.

astockwell
10-22-2010, 09:35 PM
yeah, no way are we ditching critique, I'm more pushing to a point where EVERYTHING can be critiqued by default, then to have a flag for "take it easy" and another for "I brought my lube"... I just think that more people should use critique, and making it the default might make people more willing to play?

I also feel if someone needs some serious critique, we have users here who know enough about most subjects to give it. Sure, some really advanced shooters might not get much critique, but we're a school here, not graduate school. ;)

I think you should use that..."I brought my lube"

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 09:36 PM
yeah, and mark, part of me making one section is based on people making mistakes and posting in threads they wouldn't otherwise. IE you can ALWAYS say "nice shot" or whatever in a thread in the new single section regardless of it's designation. But if it's marked to sharing only, comments/crits would/should be edited out by the mods? But the DEFAULT option would be mild critiques or just critique depending on how we set it up (middle if we need 3, critique if we go with 2). That way more people would fall into critique which is a good thing. At NOT POINT should people feel hurt by comments made in critique IMHO, they should all be constructive anyway...

I'm leaning toward locking the current critique to NEW threads for a while, and to try out using just the sharing section with 2 options, critique or not, but the DEFAULT is to get critique, at least a bit. This way people who aren't paying attention walk into it and get critique. This mode basically makes you have to ask NOT to get critiqued which I think most people wouldn't do?

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 09:41 PM
I think you should use that..."I brought my lube"

well, I like the icon approach, so a Vaseline jar icon? :lol:

my other point with all this is the traffic issue. We're not big enough to have critique and sharing be separate yet IMHO. This is partially because some people avoid critique because they don't feel they know enough (to post or comment). I disagree, but because it happens, lumping everything into one and using the icons should allow those people to make whatever comments you like.

IE on the whimp level it's only whimp comments.
on the next level, mild crit, you can back slap or offer mild suggestions.
on lube you can rip 'em a new one, make mild suggestions OR backslap?

danm
10-22-2010, 09:42 PM
i think there is a reason people dont post as many threads i critique. they are either afraid or uninterested in hearing what others have to say. hell many people are probably using sharing to see what other peoples tastes are, what goes over best; which i what i do often. therefore i am just afraid that default being critique will kill photo submission overall.

i suggest going out of our way to respond to and promote critique as a section and as a practice.

jacobsen1
10-22-2010, 09:47 PM
i suggest going out of our way to respond to and promote critique as a section and as a practice.

we've been down this road before, it won't work.

I see your point though, and let me put it this way. I see the new sections default sharing as a candy coated version of the current critique. You still have the option to have ZERO critique, just not by default. You have the option for the candy coated critique, then you ALSO have the option for the lubed up version. Take your pic. But because it's in the ONLY sharing/crit section we have, ANYONE can post the nice comments (encouragement) they want in the thread? This should lead to less threads getting ZERO or ONE replies because people don't want to crit them but they're not in sharing.....

astockwell
10-22-2010, 10:21 PM
we've been down this road before, it won't work.

I see your point though, and let me put it this way. I see the new sections default sharing as a candy coated version of the current critique. You still have the option to have ZERO critique, just not by default. You have the option for the candy coated critique, then you ALSO have the option for the lubed up version. Take your pic. But because it's in the ONLY sharing/crit section we have, ANYONE can post the nice comments (encouragement) they want in the thread? This should lead to less threads getting ZERO or ONE replies because people don't want to crit them but they're not in sharing.....

I like the icon choice thing. That reminds me...about time to go look through the 0 and 1's again.

jjswee
10-22-2010, 10:52 PM
I am probably more guilty than anyone, but I think why sharing is more popular is the number of responses. I posted a critique thread and had two people respond (Ben, you gave me amazing advice in that thread, and I thank you) and 89 views. I posted in sharing and had 5 people respond and 56 views. I posted in sharing because I just wanted more responses. If anything, I got a better idea of what people liked.

As I said, I am guilty of not helping the situation. I need to work on that. I feel I don't understand photography enough to give good critique. I was responding to the sharing threads, but I was just saying 'nice shot!' and 'I like number 3!' and thought that wasn't helpful. Being on the return end of those posts, I found they do help.

danm
10-22-2010, 11:02 PM
everyone should also realize that you need no photographic skill or knowledge to critique. just tell what you dont like, if something feels unbalanced etc.

i try to force Rachel to critique my shots and pick her favs. your target audience is normal people not photogs, so we need to know what normal people think of our shots.

brian1971
10-22-2010, 11:05 PM
I have put a lot of my sets in Sharing lately because I feel like I can't get anyone to bother saying ANYTHING in critique sometimes. I posted a wedding thread in critique, got very little response. From the response I DID get, I posted alternate photos that I felt addressed the critique. Got bupkiss for a response and now it's sunk to the bottom.

My bad, I did see the new photos but I was using my phone and I hate responding to the forum on my phone. I just responded now.

I've been here over a year now and I very rarely comment in critique. I still feel like I have no idea what I'm talking about so I feel weird critiquing you guys. But, I'm trying, commenting on Mark's thread was a start.

I also rarely post in critique, not because I don't want to here the criticism, but because I never think my shots are good enough for critique (I know that doesn't make any sense). That's why I'm all for a forum where everything is open to critique, it takes the decision out of my hands. This thread is what got me to post the yam shot in critique, I wanted to know what people honestly thought of the shot.

jjswee
10-22-2010, 11:18 PM
Danm - 'normal people' like oversaturated HDR pics. :lol:

thechickencow
10-22-2010, 11:33 PM
I kinda like the idea of a 'rip it to shreds' section specifially for people looking to make drastic improvements in their shots.

jjswee
10-22-2010, 11:38 PM
I agree with Jay. Say I wanted to print something and wanted to make it as best I could. A rip it to shreds post with it could maybe turn it into something greater.

thechickencow
10-22-2010, 11:44 PM
My big issue with the whole deal is I just don't have much time to give great thoughts on most pictures, so often I don't even open the threads. When there's 20 shots in a thread I can't even start to think about critique, so it's "I like 2 and 83" or whatever.

All these options we're throwing out, I am wondering how they will be understood by newer members - of course people who have been around a while will get it but will somebody logging on for the first time?

jm2e
10-23-2010, 01:08 PM
everyone should also realize that you need no photographic skill or knowledge to critique.
As evidenced by every post I've ever made in critique!!! :pirate:

jacobsen1
10-23-2010, 01:55 PM
everyone should also realize that you need no photographic skill or knowledge to critique. just tell what you dont like, if something feels unbalanced etc.

i try to force Rachel to critique my shots and pick her favs. your target audience is normal people not photogs, so we need to know what normal people think of our shots.

+1. It's actually the less photographic critiques I take to heart more. One of us might critique matt's lighting or use of flare for example, but NON photographers love it so who cares? So at times those critiques are actually BETTER than photographic suggestions. At other times it's a nuts and bolts technique thing, so you need the photo specific crit. But that's my point with making a new section or unifying the sections. Will that make newer people more likely (more comfortable) to post in a thread?



I kinda like the idea of a 'rip it to shreds' section specifially for people looking to make drastic improvements in their shots.

yeah, agreed, but why aren't people getting that now in our current crit? Why do you have to ask for it? That's why I like the idea of ONE section with 3 levels of crit. You're welcome to say anything you want up to the level the OP asked? So nice shot comments are fine in crit threads, or even "I really like 3 5 and 7" as I agree those comments help people learn what people DO like and what they don't, even if they can't give reasons why....


My big issue with the whole deal is I just don't have much time to give great thoughts on most pictures, so often I don't even open the threads. When there's 20 shots in a thread I can't even start to think about critique, so it's "I like 2 and 83" or whatever.

All these options we're throwing out, I am wondering how they will be understood by newer members - of course people who have been around a while will get it but will somebody logging on for the first time?

yeah, I know I'm also guilty of opening something on the phone or when I don't have time and thinking I'll come back to it, but if it falls off the first page I'll miss it... As for new people, that's why I like the idea of having it be ONE section and the default being mild critique. That way everyone sees MOST threads getting suggestions on improvements while being reasonably tame as well as the "nice shot" comments. By default, posting means you're asking for suggestions but NOT getting your feelings hurt. If you're VERY shy or subconscious AND you read the rules you'll have the option to not have the crit... And if you really want to be torn up, flag it that way and those who CAN can tear it apart but those who can't can at least say if they like it or not?



IMHO, in the critique section, there's no such thing as bad feedback. It might not be as easy to react to and adjust for if it's not a technical critique, but that doesn't make it any less meaningful, at least not to me.


So, do I lock the critique section we have now to new posts, and put in icons in sharing and a new rule thread? Do I lock BOTH existing sections and make one new single one that we can try? I don't want to start merging sections or anything major like that until we all think it's working, but I would like to try a new single section with the new rules/icons? Maybe leave crit and sharing alone (open) and add the third for now so we can try it first?

I'm all about feedback. I think we've got a lot of good discussion going here (and some people are posting more in crit already) and I just want to try to keep this momentum going and get it focused into a way that works for ALL of us to get and give feedback that we're comfortable with?...

KC
10-27-2010, 03:22 PM
To me, someone who is a complete novice still at this...

I would love critique on everything.

I post in sharing because critique isn't the sharing forum.

Critique to me is where you post pictures for others to suggest ways of doing it differently, not the "here are some pictures I took" forum... that make sense?

Why post the same set in both forums (besides having the same photo(s) load 2x off the hosting server... I think)?

I say combine them into one with 2 icons available, vaseline and the smiley face with the tape over the mouth and exclamation point (for no critique) http://www.s2ki.com/forums/html/emoticons/ignore.gif http://www.s2ki.com/forums/html/emoticons/ignore.gif (Don't know if that one works)

--kC

tardypizza
10-27-2010, 03:26 PM
I say combine them into one with 2 icons available, vaseline and the smiley face with the tape over the mouth and exclamation point (for no critique)

--kC

combine the forums and have different icons for critique?? BRILLIANT!

KC
10-27-2010, 03:28 PM
(i'm agreeing... duh!)

--kC

jacobsen1
10-27-2010, 03:29 PM
OK, the new section is up: http://newschoolofphotography.com/lightbox/
sharing and critique are closed to new threads, but open for posts.

this is the wimp/no crit icon: http://newschoolofphotography.com/images/icons/wimpy.gif
this is the bring it icon: http://newschoolofphotography.com/images/icons/hot.gif

if neither are used it's assumed to be a "light" critique meaning you can comment on things as a viewer but don't go into any deep details unless the OP asks for more.

let's see how this works. I haven't done anything to crit or sharing and won't until this new section has proven to work. Eventually I could see everything being slide into one section, but let's test it first and make sure it makes sense and everyone is happy.

KC
10-27-2010, 03:30 PM
You may want to send out an admin email to everyone telling them that. ;)

--KC

Juanita
10-27-2010, 03:33 PM
Could be just that I'm here at work, but I can't see the icons on the new threads.

Lonnie Utah
10-27-2010, 03:34 PM
Hey Ben,

You might want to update something on the front page to let the more casual users know what's going on.

jjswee
10-27-2010, 03:40 PM
Could be just that I'm here at work, but I can't see the icons on the new threads.

Open up a thread and look to the left of the thread title in the first post. Thats where it should be.

In one of the new threads. Click Ben's Elias thread in LightBox. It should be the blue icon.

jacobsen1
10-27-2010, 03:45 PM
Hey Ben,

You might want to update something on the front page to let the more casual users know what's going on. I just finished an announcement.


Could be just that I'm here at work, but I can't see the icons on the new threads.

can you screen cap it?

Juanita
10-27-2010, 03:54 PM
It's there when I'm looking at that forum, but not when I open the thread.

jacobsen1
10-27-2010, 03:56 PM
ok the icons to the left of the post:
http://benjacobsenphoto.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/randomcrap/lightbox.jpg

those tell you what's fair. Blue = don't crit. Red = anything goes. ANYTHING ELSE means light critique, which is of course the default. ;)

here you can see where the icon is inside the post:
http://benjacobsenphoto.com/blog/wp-content/gallery/randomcrap/lightbox2.jpg

thechickencow
10-27-2010, 04:08 PM
Do people have hte power to go back in and change their icons after the fact?

jacobsen1
10-27-2010, 05:22 PM
Do people have hte power to go back in and change their icons after the fact?

yes. :)

the only trouble I see from that is if someone changes it FROM crit to not and people either misread old comments or follow suit. But I don't see this being a big issue?

tbert
10-27-2010, 05:29 PM
Dammit! We need less government in our lives, not more! :unamused:

Oh...BTW,...http://newschoolofphotography.com/images/icons/wimpy.gif

thechickencow
10-27-2010, 10:00 PM
I'd say non-issue. I don't see people changing it much except if they forget at the start.

MoLS
10-30-2010, 09:10 PM
Is there a reason posts in the lightbox section are not showing up in the "forum posts" sidebar deal?

jacobsen1
11-01-2010, 11:22 AM
Is there a reason posts in the lightbox section are not showing up in the "forum posts" sidebar deal?

I'll check that out, but I'd bet something is hard coded with forum ID#s. :diaf:

jacobsen1
11-01-2010, 11:25 AM
fixed, thanks Jeff. The one on the home page lists the sections NOT to put there (for sale etc) while the one VB writes makes you pick them from a list to include.

I also edited the rules of LB in the sticky to include the screen shots.

wrxfactor
11-01-2010, 11:49 AM
Ben, when I click new posts or zero replies there are no icons. Can we get the chili and hamburger man to show up there too?

jacobsen1
11-01-2010, 12:23 PM
Ben, when I click new posts or zero replies there are no icons. Can we get the chili and hamburger man to show up there too?

nope. But when you READ THE ACTUAL POST, they're at the very top, so that should be the first thing you check.

wrxfactor
11-01-2010, 10:23 PM
Yeah, I saw them there, just wanted to know if it was a setting you didn't turn on yet or if it wasn't something we could have. Maybe I only want to read posts with the fiery chili!