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bleuquila
05-11-2009, 04:44 PM
Ok I'd like to order some ND filters, which is something I havn't done for a while because I find all the systems and numbers and letter and components confusing :confused:

I want to get something that may be a bit overkill now, but will last if/when I switch to ff, which is why Z-pro. Good assumption? right now my widest lens is 17mm on the 40D, so I could get away with .. less. I think.

So, a Cokin Z-Pro Filter Holder which is for "100 x 100mm (4"), 100 x 150mm (4 x 6"). I've seen discussion of 4x4 and 4x5 but basically, anything that's 4"x or 100m x will work with this, right? Like, the height doesn't matter. So, the Cokin Z-Pro works with, say, Hitech 4x5 filters?

And then a filter-sized adapter ring for whatever lens, or a bunch for different lenses.

And then for actual filters, maybe for starters
Hitech 4x5 Gradual ND 0.6 Hard Edge
Hitech 4x5 Gradual ND 0.9 Hard Edge

And .... I want a 10 stop ND, do they sell those in the 4x format, or does everyone pretty much just get screw-on in whatever lens size?

same with circular polarizers, I've only ever used the screw-on type, does anyone actually use the monsters that fit into something like the z-pro holder?

thomps6s
05-11-2009, 04:52 PM
Ok I'd like to order some ND filters, which is something I havn't done for a while because I find all the systems and numbers and letter and components confusing :confused:

I want to get something that may be a bit overkill now, but will last if/when I switch to ff, which is why Z-pro. Good assumption? right now my widest lens is 17mm on the 40D, so I could get away with .. less. I think.

So, a Cokin Z-Pro Filter Holder which is for "100 x 100mm (4"), 100 x 150mm (4 x 6"). I've seen discussion of 4x4 and 4x5 but basically, anything that's 4"x or 100m x will work with this, right? Like, the height doesn't matter. So, the Cokin Z-Pro works with, say, Hitech 4x5 filters?

And then a filter-sized adapter ring for whatever lens, or a bunch for different lenses.

And then for actual filters, maybe for starters
Hitech 4x5 Gradual ND 0.6 Hard Edge
Hitech 4x5 Gradual ND 0.9 Hard Edge

And .... I want a 10 stop ND, do they sell those in the 4x format, or does everyone pretty much just get screw-on in whatever lens size?

same with circular polarizers, I've only ever used the screw-on type, does anyone actually use the monsters that fit into something like the z-pro holder?

You have it all right, 4x4 and 4x5 and 4x6 all are the same width and fit in the same holder.

You might want to consider Soft edge filters for starting out though as they are more versatile filters IMHO. If you are shooting a lighthouse for example, with the horizon intersecting the beacon, a hard edge will be too obvious.

You can buy HiTech 10 stop Z sized filters as well as Polarizing filters, but they mention that there is a red cast in their 10 stop filter. I have never used or known anyone who uses a rectangular polarizer.

An issue I see with the polarizer : let's say you want to shoot with a GND and polarizer. this is a great idea, however you have to spin the polarizer to get the desired effect and the GND will be in front of it. You cannot place the grad line where you want it.

IMHO, you are best off getting round filters for the 10 stop and polarizer two.

FWIW

this was shot with a 10 stop B+W round filter and Zpro sized filter holder threaded on the 10 stop with a 2 stop GND hard edge.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3299/3506301242_65d6202770.jpg?v=0

Also, yes, go ZPro if you can. You will see the holder at certain angles with a crop body and the smaller P sized filters @17mm.

bleuquila
05-11-2009, 05:34 PM
ok... awesome, thanks!

Yeah the polarizer I saw was this ridiculous thing: http://2filter.com/cokin/cokinzpro.html#4720

Which ..... is cool, but I'm pretty sure that's a bit too much system for my tastes :)

LateApex
05-11-2009, 05:53 PM
I have that style polarizer for my P-sized filters. It works. I got it because I already have Cokin adapters for my different lenses, and didn't want to buy a different polarizer for each lens, or mess with step up rings.

You can spin the CPL within the holder, so it works with Grad NDs.

I haven't really shot much with it since I got it though. I need to, I guess.

bleuquila
05-11-2009, 06:09 PM
^ yeah, that's the reason I was considering it, right now I'm on the fence between CircPol + step up rings, or get that style and cokin adapter rings for the filter holder. but a lot of the time I just want to walk around with one lens and a CircPol on by default so I guess for me a screw on type is still ftw. especially if I can mount the z-pro filter holder right to a screwon CircPol if the need arises.

thomps6s
05-11-2009, 08:22 PM
Cokin makes a round Circ-Pol that sits in the holder. It does not screw to the lens.
Not sure if it sits in the Zpro or not, you would have to call on that.

If you buy a standard round Polarizer, remember that Slim Polarizers do not have front threads and you cannot mount the Zpro holder to one of them.

Tylersladen
05-11-2009, 08:37 PM
I wish There was a Guide for complete Morons on this subject all the numbers and edges make my eyes boggle.

thomps6s
05-11-2009, 08:45 PM
I wish There was a Guide for complete Morons on this subject all the numbers and edges make my eyes boggle.

Yeah it is confusing no doubt.

Tylersladen
05-11-2009, 08:48 PM
I wish they sold starter kits actually.

another
05-11-2009, 09:46 PM
2filter sort of has kits:

P size (http://www.2filter.com/prices/htpackages.html)

Z size (http://www.2filter.com/prices/Hitech_Z_package.html)

but they only come with 1 grad. Still, it's a good one to start with ... and there's no reason more grads couldn't be included in the original purchase.

On the topic of alternative polarizers, at first I thought the question was about a true square-shaped circular polarizer:

(not my photo)
http://www.raneolsen.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/polalee.jpg

This is a Lee 4x4 CP. I've got one and love it (I have a number of unique filters which I tend to gravitate toward) ... for me it only has 1 purpose: ultra-wide water shots with no sky. It's a rare filter to use/own for that reason. Who the heck wants to spend $200 on a filter with only one specific purpose? :wave: (it can be used in other situations for sure, but the one I describe is the only one I find it a superior tool to other filters)

A regular screw-on CP is a much better choice if you are only buying 1 CP. It should work for all your needs except ultra-wide shots. And most of the time you won't use a CP with an ultra-wide lens cuz the sky color fades drastically. You could get a slim mount CP if you're super worried about vingetting, however, my primary screw-on CP is NOT a slim mount and I can use it all the way down to 24mm (full frame) ... so that's what is usually on my camera.

HTH

Tylersladen
05-11-2009, 09:52 PM
wow thanks man

jacobsen1
05-12-2009, 08:53 AM
Cokin makes a round Circ-Pol that sits in the holder.

that's the one blue linked and I have. I actually really like it because it snaps into the holder and you basically don't need to worry about it, except adjusting the angle. I use it on ALL my shots that I'm using grads with, I'll just dial it "back" if it's not helping. But it's GIANT (remember I'm using X pros) so it's very easy to adjust.


I wish There was a Guide for complete Morons on this subject all the numbers and edges make my eyes boggle.

yeah, it's almost impossible to figure out for whatever reason. Make your own thread, spell out the equipment you'll be using it with (now and in the future) and what you want to do. People that have been helped before will help you. That's pretty much how we all learned. :lol:


I wish they sold starter kits actually.

cokin does:
P series (needs a ring): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387434-REG/Cokin_CH250_Graduated_Neutral_Density_Filter.html# includes
Z series (needs a ring): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387468-REG/Cokin_CU960_Z_Pro_U960_Pro_Graduated.html#includes

both those kits have the 3 popular GND filers (1 2 and 3 stops) and the holder. All you need is the metal ring that makes that work with your lens. The reason that's not included is each lens can have a different size, so it's easier for them to make one kit then you buy the ring you need. If your lenses don't have the same size front filters you need rings for each size. (This is why I purposely have lenses that all have the same size).

thomps6s
05-12-2009, 08:59 AM
cokin does:
P series (needs a ring): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387434-REG/Cokin_CH250_Graduated_Neutral_Density_Filter.html# includes
Z series (needs a ring): http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/387468-REG/Cokin_CU960_Z_Pro_U960_Pro_Graduated.html#includes

both those kits have the 3 popular GND filers (1 2 and 3 stops) and the holder. All you need is the metal ring that makes that work with your lens. The reason that's not included is each lens can have a different size, so it's easier for them to make one kit then you buy the ring you need. If your lenses don't have the same size front filters you need rings for each size. (This is why I purposely have lenses that all have the same size).

No offense to anyone using Cokin filters, but spend the extra money and at least get HiTech brand filters. I have seen too much red cast from cokin to risk it. Some people do not get the red cast, but they are notorious for it.

jacobsen1
05-12-2009, 09:55 AM
<--- uses cokins

thomps6s
05-12-2009, 09:56 AM
<--- uses cokins

Yup and If you were buying today would you buy them again?

jacobsen1
05-12-2009, 10:09 AM
does anyone else offer X pro sized filters? :unamused:

(I've been tempted to switch down to a 4x6 setup with hi-techs, but I'm also toying with the idea of getting another 12-24mm WHICH ONLY WORKS WITH X - PROs).

N.Lindstrom
05-12-2009, 10:35 AM
I recently found my Cokins have the red cast. :(

bleuquila
05-12-2009, 01:38 PM
Thanks for all the help! Decided to go with

B+W 77mm #110 Solid ND 3.0 (1000x) 10 f/stop (screw on)
Hitech Z 0.6 SL Grad Kit (Comes with Cokin Z-pro holder, 1 filter, 1 adapter ring .. $15 cheaper than buying individually)
Hitech 4x5 Gradual ND 0.6 Hard Edge Filter

So, I'll start with 1 each 0.6 soft and hard and ... see how that works.

And just got a screw on cir-pl, and a UV filter for the precious 17-55. (with front threads)
ugh , adds up so fast!!

And I really need to consolidate my filter sizes :|

bleuquila
05-14-2009, 01:23 PM
also just wanted to say 2filter is a pretty great shop. They sent me an email this morning to say some of my stuff is backordered, ( :( ) the 10-stop, one of my grads and the CPL. and also


*** PLEASE NOTE:
Right now there is a shortage of HD 77 Circular Polarizer’s. There is also presently an issue of the ring coming apart – I can only assume Hoya is trying to correct this and that is why there is a shortage.

The two alternatives I would suggest would be the Hoya Pro 1 Digital CPL which is a multicoated low profile filter for $112.12; or the B+W 77mm Multicoated CPL which is $167.62 – it is a German filter, the B+W is a bit more expensive but you will find the coatings quite a bit easier to clean.

which I thought was nice. I called and chatted about about the circpol's available and decided to switch so I get one in time. Pretty bummed about the 10-stop though, but I can just rush that from B&H and cancel part of this order. So, it's cool they are flexible and personal :)

thomps6s
05-14-2009, 01:27 PM
also just wanted to say 2filter is a pretty great shop. They sent me an email this morning to say some of my stuff is backordered, ( :( ) the 10-stop, one of my grads and the CPL. and also


which I thought was nice. I called and chatted about about the circpol's available and decided to switch so I get one in time. Pretty bummed about the 10-stop though, but I can just rush that from B&H and cancel part of this order. So, it's cool they are flexible and personal :)


Yeah, get the 10 stoop from BH, it is in stock or at least was yesterday.

bleuquila
05-19-2009, 10:35 PM
Ok! I am less thrilled with 2filter / filter connection now!

They are still very nice, but the packaging/warehouse people are.. uh.

I've gotten 3 boxes from them for one order - the first one had my 0.6 HE, the filter holder, and adapter ring. And the UV filter.

The second box had the CPL. By that point I had emailed asking them to cancel the 10-stop since I ordered that from B&H, but the lady told me it had already shipped, which was odd, since they said it was a 10-day wait.

So today I get .. a 3-stop ND, and a second 0.6 HE :confused: :huh:

:lol: Oh well guess I'll be sending that box back. I do wish I had gotten the SE for my trip this weekend though :(

jacobsen1
05-20-2009, 10:05 AM
yeah, everyone seems to be having issues with them lately? I wonder if it's a sign of the times and that they're cutting back on staff and inventory? Even the big guys (B&H and adorama) have a ton more things listed as "backordered" or "special order" now. :unamused:

Redlineracer12
05-20-2009, 04:27 PM
Sorry to hear about your luck with 2filter... I've had good experience with them the couple times I've ordered from them.

I might finally get a Cokin z-pro holder, 3 stop soft Hi-tech, and 4 stop solid Hi-tech ND if I can sell a couple other things :)